Tuesday, November 4, 2008

Oh yes. Yes indeed.

Good morning, America.


DLGroover2 said...

Hear hear! I'm so disappointed in my home state of Florida though. The bill to ban gay marriage passed with 62%, last I checked. And there is apparently an anti-Obama mob up at the local college (UNF).


Anonymous said...

That was a really good speech from Obama. Actually made me, an unashamed cynic, optimistic for the future.

The sad thing is, I probably followed this American election more than my own Australian elections.

hiddengrounds said...

Its time to embrace the future. But while we are at it, I think McCains closing speech had the Mars, God of War feel to it. A near Empire feel to it... I didn't like it, but I thought you might need to know.

Anonymous said...

Nicely done, America!

(You know, except for the whole "taking rights away from homosexuals in several states" deal. What the fuck happened there?)

Peter Fall said...

Anonymous said: "I probably followed this American election more than my own Australian elections."

Really? are you actually currently living in Australia, too? I'm curios, what's the general reaction? I've heard there's been a lot of international interest in this election particularly, but i kind of wondered how much so. Then when I saw a CNN clip of a small crowd of Kenyans huddled around a TV, I gotta say, it actually made me feel (strangely enough), a bit self conscious as an American (as well as a little patriotic :). It got me thinking, do we really have THAT big of an impact on a little town in Kenya?! and are we really a role model? or just entertainment, maybe? or are they just trying to figure out what this crazy old country is going to do next..?

Unknown said...

I honestly had my doubts america would step up, but as Obama said, democracy won. Which brings some hope, now let's see if it was well placed.

Gz. :P

Anonymous said...

Even more disappointing is that, while it looks like Proposition 2 will pass (a good thing), it seems as if Proposition 8 will pass as well (a bad, sad thing indeed).

What are people so afraid of, that they would support such a thing, when the president they just elected opposes it, their governor opposes it, their newspapers oppose it, etc.

Florida, Arizona, they didn't surprise me, but California?

Valdimar said...

Hurray for Obama!

I'm Icelandic, and I've been following this election closely, as have all of my friends here in Reykjavik. My parents even fell asleep in the TV room over the election broadcast, with an alarm set to go off an hour before the projected end of the election. US politics have a lot of influence here, and garner a lot of attention.

Gentry said...

I don't think McCain had anybody rooting for him outside the USA.

Anonymous said...

I've been doing a term abroad in England (about that question you asked awhile ago... Yes, the KFC is better over here).

The amount of coverage of the elections has been stunning. "America Votes" has been on the front page of just about every single major newspaper, and the BBC had live coverage of the election results for most of the night. People over here really care.

As a side note, a local newspaper conducted a poll regarding who they thought would be best suited for the presidency. Obama came in on top... I think Homer Simpson and the Peter from Family Guy beat out McCain.

Also, Palin seems to be every UK-based political cartoonists' punching bag.

Michael Black said...

Obama has such a difficult job ahead of him, I can not fathom the position of leader of any country, let along the cultural and political capital of the West, I say this as an Australian. Four Years is not enough to truly shape a nation or influence the world, after eight years of the international view of the USA lowering, he has such a difficult task ahead of him, but out of the two, Obama has the greatest ability to affect change in a positive manner.

Anonymous said...

A great moment in our history. A great moment to be alive

Anonymous said...

Peter Fall: While the Kenyan reaction may be extreme because Obama's father is from there, you have no idea of the impact this has on the rest of the world.

I'm in South Africa and we have been watching the elections closely, as the old saying goes, 'When America sneezes, the world catches cold.'

The current financial climate comes from under-regulated American financial markets. And the world in many ways needs American leadership, but without the belligerence and arrogance of the outgoing administration.

Well done, USA. As a nation you need to be proud of the widespread political engagement of your people.

Anonymous said...

Even though only a small percent had an influence on the vote, this has defiantly been one of the first 'world elections'.

Whether or not 'world leadership' is a good thing is debatable, but it is change which is exactly what we need.

ICallItFutile said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ICallItFutile said...

We can always rely on Cali to vote correctly.

Orgun said...

Im from the UK and I know more about American politics than our own. Probably because US elections are such a fan fair while ours are really really dull...not to mention parliment is just a bunch of old men grumbling and shouting over each other (literally, watch the PMQs).

dLindner said...

Hey, I'm Uruguayan and have been following this election as ours.

I can barely imagine how much work is waiting for Obama. How many things he'll have to learn: Area 51, the Red Button, FBI Paranormal investigation Dpt, Black Mesa! :D

Congratulations everyone.

Sean Boocock said...

Like some of the previous commentators I am saddened that my home state, Arizona, passed a constitutional amendment to define marriage. Why are we enshrining a religious institution in the very organizing documents of our states' laws (not withstanding the bigotry)? Sigh... at least Obama has a mandate going forward though he is going to need every ounce of goodwill to get the United States on a more progressive course.

Fokma said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

It was a fantastic day yesterday!! Obama won, Prop 8 was passed, everything is right in this country.

tomsamson said...

In germany the majority of the people here were for Obama all the time (maybe you have seen videos of Obama visiting Germany before the elections and over 200k people standing there and saluting him with "Yes,we can" when he said something).
I watched the whole election night nonstop, because yeah, who is President of the USA does have a big impact on the whole world.
I think many around the world just like me like what Obama stands for, unity of people no matter which religion or skin color they have and the idea that everyone can have a chance and achieve something and that hes into doing many things different than the previous administration.
I´m very happy about how the election went and hope Obama can do good things, we´re in very difficult times and people from all around the world want things to change for the better, he seems like the best suited to make some of it happen, so all my best wishes to him.
Also yesterday night it was the first time again in many years i was feeling like its a cool thing to yell USA,USA!
(i have many colleagues and friends from the US with whom i always had nice relationships, but yeah, i think at this point most people know how negative many things the bush administration did were seen in the world, so many,many are very happy things hopefully change a lot now)

Anonymous said...

It looks like I have the unpopular oppion here, but I will not be able to understand why we elected a socalist. I am afraid I will not be able to purcase a home now because of intrest rates, and that Obama will enable people who just want to get by and not put in the hard work to make a real living.

Hopfully I am totally wrong and he will be the greatest Presedent to date. I just don't see it happening.

tomsamson said...

"I am afraid I will not be able to purcase a home now because of intrest rates"

Man, you do know that the whole problem with the financial crysis happened because of the things Bush pulled off after the attacks ?
Banks got money for way cheap and then gave credits to many people who actually had no chance to pay them back, then couldn´t pay the fees for their houses, the banks took the houses but those had way lower value as so many lost their houses at once and there weren´t many into buying the houses for the inflated prices they went for after people for several years buying houses.
So yeah, no matter what Obama does, there´s reason for why people have hopes it will be better thaan what was done by the previous administration.

Jeff Green said...

The passing of Prop 8 is a shameful disgrace---the one real sour note on an otherwise amazing, historic, uplifting day.

tomsamson said...


Anonymous said...

tomsamson's understanding of the home loan/banking crisis is idiotic at best.

Anonymous said...

Interesting day. So America is down with the brown, but not taking it in the brown.

Congratulations though to America, lets hope you get the President you have all hoped for!

Anonymous said...

Its funny about the Australia thing because i checked out a few news sites from england and Australia and wow i couldnt believe how closely they followed our election. kinda makes me ashamed because honestly most americans (including me) dont know ANYTHING about foreign politics. but me and my friends went out drinking and following the election results. oh man what a night! huge huge huge. we needed this bad!

tomsamson said...

to anonymous: I just summed it up briefly, didn´t write down each single step that lead to the problem in all its length, but yeah, thanks for your feedback put in insulting way. What about next time adding anything useful to a conversation instead of just attacking the other(´s stance) ?

Unknown said...

Imagination and the will to put those imaginings into reality - a reality that just might make this place we all share - a place we may not even understand - might improve it for people we'll never even meet - that's the America I want to be a part of. That's the America I think we remembered to be. Fuck I'm happy. :)

Anonymous said...
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Anonymous said...

Wow these comments are amazing!! its really amazing how much the whole world is involved in this.

to be honest here in the US i totally thought that it would be a closer election. our last two elections were so close and both times shenanigans happened! i thought for sure it would happen again. but it didnt. Obama won straight out! i was so proud of us. i dont know what i would have done if mccain had won.

Anonymous said...

We had about 500 people parading around our campus, last night/this morning after Obama was announced the winner. I was there...It was EPIC.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Jeff Green said...

There will be no name-calling on this blog. Healthy disagreement is okay. But to "anonymous" who called someone an "idiot"--your post has been deleted.

Anonymous said...

I would've thought in California of all places something like prop 8 wouldn't pass. there was a lot of campaigning going on at UCLA (and I assume all the universities) to the point where on election day there were groups handing out fliers and telling people to vote no every 10 feet but it still passed. I guess old people won and that is disappointing.

Brain Blurbs said...

your post is genius Jeff lol

Anonymous said...

In response to Peter Fall...

Obama's father is Kenyan. This could explain why Kenyans where celebrating, at least more than a general interest in American politics would. At least to the extent they were celebrating. It has been reported in the media that Obama has become a symbol of pride in Kenya since the begining of the elections. So I think it is a little egotistical (and so typically American) to believe Kenyans take the US as a role model. Maybe they (with reason) take Obama has one, though.

Nick Kunst said...

it really is a beautiful morning. I can't help but to feel a bit melancholy though. Looks like Prop 8 (gay marriage ban) is going to pass here in California...

Rhody said...

I never did like California.

Unknown said...

Did prop 8 actually pass? Last I heard, 95% were reporting and it was passing by a margin of 400k votes. Some people are saying its possible for them to make that back with the final 5%. If not, its incredibly unfortunate that the religious right can spend enough to sway this typically forward facing state.

resident UA said...

I just thought of something. Obama really doesn't need those 55 votes that California gave him. Can we exchange those votes for extra 5% of NOs for Proposition 8???

Jeff Green said...

Note: When I say that name-calling won't be tolerated on this blog, I mean name-calling between each other, as we post here.

So that means that I can call all those who voted Yes on Prop 8 uptight, homophobic morons who should stop worrying about how other people lead their lives and focus more on what leads them to be judgmental, self-righteous assholes.


Unknown said...

So whats the deal on that passing? Can another proposition be put up for a vote in 5 years? Does a different avenue have to be taken since this prop passed? Whats the next step?

Ivan Cantu-Villarreal said...

You know with all these people having a problem with homosexuals it really makes you wonder who has something phallic up their ass.

::rim shot::

I'll go now.

But seriously, let them be for fuck's sake, they are people too, and I promise your arm won't fall off if they get married, they won't be any less homosexual if you deny them that right, thats for sure.

All this Anti-Obama rallies are ridiculous, people are so racist STILL its insane, some even going as far as calling him the Anti-Christ, seriously, grow the fuck up.

Anonymous said...

I see... the voters in California are smart for voting for Obama, but those same voters are idiots for passing Prop 8.

Perfect liberal logic.

Jeff Green said...

Actually, there are tons of conservatives in California---home of Reagan and Nixon, after all. And many of those who might have voted for Obama for economic reasons etc would still call themselves "social conservatives" and thus would vote Yes on 8.

It's not a matter of "liberal logic"--but the fact that you want to reduce the discussion to simplistic platitudes like that is really awesome, and perfectly avoids having to actually use your brain to process the issues. Bravo.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, last night was definitely bittersweet for me. Went from an emotional high around 8pm (Obama wins!) to a crushing low a little past midnight when SF checked in on prop 8 and it was still winning.

Also, this election gave me serious Bay Area nostalgia. :]

Anonymous said...

Personally I think it is absolutely disgusting and vile that such a terrible thing like Prop 8 has passed.

It honestly makes me truly disgusted with those who voted yes.

Jeff Green said...

Yay Sean Molloy!

I'll trade you a copy of Sims 3 for Wrath of the Lich King!

dLindner said...

that's unfair Jeff, you can get the Sims 3 copy for free!

Anonymous said...

Sucks about Prop 8. We had a similar proposal on the ballot back in '04 here in Michigan that went down pretty much the same way. I'll never understand why people are such fucking assholes about other people's personal lives. Why can't they just mind their own goddamn business?

At least we legalized medicinal marijuana this year though.

Anonymous said...

I seriously hope Pelosi does something about this as she said she would.

Alex said...

I can't believe Prop 8 passed...

Anonymous said...

I've often wondered how much of the movement against gay marriage could be motivated by the insurance industry. Aren't two separate payers is more profitable than 1 couple? *shrugs*

Anonymous said...

Is Prop 8 gonna get through the California courts though?

wonky73 said...

Good Morning America.. our long night of communist tyranny begins in january. The cold war is now officially over. Communism won. Dark dark days indeed for those who love freedom.

Rhody said...

^^ Please stop. If I roll my eyes any harder I'll be able to see my brain and I don't want that.

Anonymous said...

Black people in CA generally voted for Obama and for Prop 8. A lot of people seem to be blaming blacks and Hispanics for Prop 8 passing, but they were also instrumental in Obama's victory. So you can't have it both ways.

Anonymous said...

I didn't see any point in campaigning for Obama in CA so I devoted my energies the past couple weeks to get people to vote yes on prop 8. We worked hard, inspired by Obama's message that we could do anything, and prop 8 passed!!

Rhody said...

Way to write your heterosexism and bigotry into the constitution. Because that's totally what it's there for. To DENY people rights.

I'm so glad I live in Canada. My same sex marriage to my amazing husband is safe from that kind of small-mindedness.

ICallItFutile said...

Sean Molloy? Awesome!

Anthony said...

lol communist? Jesus, I have found and still find it so laughable that people call Obama a communist/socialist/marxist... like even IF he was, he could turn the US into a communist nation just by saying so... wtf. I guess the fact that there is 3 branches of government to check and balance each other doesn't exist (I learned that in the 4th grade!!!)And as if people wouldn't revolt or something if he tried. He's a president, not a dictator or a king. Oy... people.

Vahe Isaganyan said...

Yeah the ban on gay marriage passed here in Cali as well. What a shame...we still have a long way to go as a people.

Anyways I am very hopeful for the future. We are in such a deep hole that it won't be easy getting out. Slowly but surely I know we will.

Anonymous said...

Heck yes.

baxterpunch said...

Yay Sean Malloy! You don't happen to have one of these bloggy things too, do you?

Anonymous said...

@jeff: Seems like a fair trade, but I'll have my negotiator contact you to work out details!

@josh: Sorta! I have one that was last updated in, like, June of 2005...and I *want* to start doing one, and have vague plans for it. Does that count?

Tydigame said...

This went almost exactly as my play-through of "The Political Machine" predicted.

Anonymous said...

Some say mistake ,i say progress. I also picked up ,This is Your Brain on Music and i have to say its quite good.

Unknown said...

"The passing of Prop 8 is a shameful disgrace---the one real sour note on an otherwise amazing, historic, uplifting day." JG

I did not even realize that gay rights and gay marriage was such an important thing. I am behind the times. But for me anyways I would rather go on a date with a pretty woman than a "pretty" man. Just fits me better. To each his own.

Anonymous said...

O i forgot also question two passed in MA ,which means that if your caught with an ounce of Pot or less you get fined and have to attend drug awareness but don't get it put on your record. Shawn picked a good time to move huh lol.

Anonymous said...

With Prop 8 and similar propositions getting through, I think it's clear that America's "glass ceiling" will not be truly shattered until we have a hispanic lesbian woman as president. Maybe a transvestite.

A sex change we can believe in.

Anonymous said...

@clifford: are you serious? you don't have to be gay to care about gay rights any more than you have to be a racial minority to care about, say, hispanic rights or black rights.

it's not a question of whether or not you fancy men over women. it's a question of whether or not people with a different sexual preference from yours should be allowed the same simple rights. and i think the answer is an obvious "yes".

Jeff Green said...

To me the issue is just that people should be allowed to love/marry who they please, and the government (and other people) should stay the heck out of it.

It's ironic to me that so many conservatives preach the doctrine of "small government" and yet have no problem passing a law that intrusively interferes with peoples' personal lives.

But hey, why let logic get in the way of your uptight fears about sexuality?

Unknown said...

Hi Pele,
Well there are many things that I am not up on. Fine let the gays have marriage I am ok with that. To me there are so many things that effect me than this issue. Like jobs, gas prices and stupid wars in the middle east that seem to be fought over oil. Also the banks mess. One big problem after another. But the gays can be married I'm ok on that.

Well anyways I hope that we can get some good work from Pres Obama. We really need a good leader these days. I think that he will serve us well.

Anonymous said...


I've always agreed with your statement about conservatives and small government. I don't get why a party that quotes the Constitution more than a rule lawyering D&D geek at every turn isn't up in arms over removing personal liberties from a group of people. Which leads me to believe it isn't about that.

It's about this,

Churches receive millions of dollars from tax free donations from their user base.

That user base is bigoted against gays.

Creating a law that prevents the churches from discriminating against gays (adopting, using the church for services, etc.) puts them in a potential position to lose their tax exempt status.

If that changes, they lose both ways. They can't afford to lose their tax exempt status, which would curb expansion into other markets (yes, religion is very much like a business) and they can't afford to accept gays because they would likely lose some of their paying base.

So it is about money, they are just cleverly using the guise of "protecting" marriage to enlist the uneducated.

Anonymous said...

Congrats to Obama, even though I'm a McCain supporter. I thought both of their speeches last night were excellent, and, cynical son of a ----- that I am, I want to feel optimistic about the future.

And Jeff: "I disagree strongly with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." I just ask that you do the same.

The most wonderful thing about America is that even though we may bitterly disagree with those on the other side of our issues, we aren't killing them the day after the election.

Jeff Green said...

You're absolutely right, urock. And McCain's concession speech was truly great. Where was THAT guy during the campaign?

Anonymous said...

Kinda feels weird doesn't it? All the election fever climaxed yesterday, now its just winding down. Now pretty much nothing for two months, but when January 20th rolls around, "Viva la revolu-" I mean, "Grats Obama."

Rhody said...

@ Jeff: THAT McCain decided to change his image drastically during the campaign. This is the real McCain. This is the John McCain that people actually liked prior to the election.

But if he can't stand up to some dumbass campaign advisors who want him to turn into Bush Lite, he probably shouldn't be president. If not for that, I wouldn't have had a favourite in this race.

Unknown said...

The crazy thing is that the social conservative line on gay marriage is that they're "protecting" hetero marriage.

Protecting it from what, exactly?

Every time I've asked any social conservative how gay marriage threatens hetero marriage, they have never, once, given me an answer.

That's because there is none. If you are a man married to a woman, or a woman married to a man, men marrying each other and women marrying each other has NO EFFECT on your marriage. NONE. Whatsoever. And nobody can give me a single reason why it ever would.

Anonymous said...

@kyle: I think the only answer one could give would be bigoted and ridiculous. They want to "protect" it from being soiled by being available to gays and lesbians. As if somehow, by letting them get married, marriage means less.

An analogy would be racist white people worried that their suburban neighborhood is suddenly going to hell when people of color start moving in.

It's plain bigotry. People with backwards values like this are more comfortable separating their lives and beliefs and rights from people who are different and don't share the same beliefs.

WHICH IS TOTALLY BATSHIT INSANE. Why do Christians constantly need to be reminded that Jesus taught love and acceptance? It's like Jeff bringing up the great point that conservatives quite often harp on issues that call for more intrusive government rather than smaller government. The loudest Christians are often yelling about putting other people down rather than helping out your fellow man.

Which isn't to say at all that all conservatives and religious people only care about supressing others. There are plenty of conservatives that truly believe in smaller government and there are a great many Christians who spend their lives bettering others without spouting hatred. It just irritates me that the most vocal conservatives and religious people are also crazy extremists that seem to want nothing more than to force their beliefs on everybody.

[/long-winded rant]

Anonymous said...

As an aside from politics, I think we could all take a moment to remember Michael Crichton, who died today.

Peter Fall said...

about this proposition 8. first of all, I'm all for gay rights. I think every person should have the right to be with the person they love, no matter if it should happen to be of the same sex.

But. Does same-sex marriage include raising a child together? (isn't that the point of marriage?) when it comes to a couple of the same gender raising a child, I'm not sure if this would or would not hurt the child psychologically(?). I don't have any facts on this, so I don't know one way or the other. does it?

Don't take me as a homophobe, because I actually stood up for same sex marriage today when we discussed it in gov. class. but then this issue came up, and i didn't know.

Rhody said...

The idea that marriage and having children are related is out dated anyway, but a child having two mothers or two fathers is better than having none. Or even one, for that matter.

Anonymous said...

The 'Great Irony' facing Social Conservatives: Homosexuals generally have one of the lowest abortion rates.

The idea that marriage is a sacred, unbreakable vow is out of date.

Anonymous said...

Hey, there's Malloy up there!

Hi Sean! How's life at Blizzard! Have they got you working 80 hour work weeks yet?


Americans and their politics.

I'm a Canadian, and of course we have a parliamentary system, so I'm always slightly confused as to why Americans believe that allotting so much power to a single person is such a great idea.

What would happens if that one person happened to be a member of the cuckoo class, and believed that he was acting under the divine providence of God - you'd get a theocracy as the result, wouldn't you.

Nah, that could never happen.

The only thing I'll say about Obama is that you've now got a president who's attitude towards government is more in line with that of the founders - Obama, I think, believes that politics is not religion and that you should govern on the basis of evidence and not on theology.

Obama also mentioned the need to continue to perfect the union, which was the permanent mission laid down by the founders - to build a more perfect union.

You can never be perfect, but you can always be more perfect than what you are.

Like, no shit, heh?

Also, who was that Anonymous who got edited? He's giving the rest of us anonymouses a bad name.

Anon E. Moose.

Anonymous said...

Jeff, what happened to the original Obama .gif you had posted? Why'd you decide to replace it with the gay-er, girly sunset? Decorum?

Jeff Green said...

Anon A. Moose: Don't worry, you're always aces in my book. :)

Other anonymous: Ah, I changed the photo just...I dunno. I liked the "morning" metaphor better.

baxterpunch said...

@Sean: "Sorta! I have one that was last updated in, like, June of 2005...and I *want* to start doing one, and have vague plans for it. Does that count?"

No, it doesn't. Not even a little bit.

But if there was just some glimmer of hope that you, Shawn Elliot, and Jeff did a group blog (a la sorethumbs) you would get all the counts. All the counts!

Unknown said...

To make a comment to the Canadian who said he didn't understand how American's can give so much power to one man. Well the Canadian Prime Minster has far more power then the American president. Maybe not during a minority government, but during majority government the Prime Minster can basically do whatever he wants (within reason of coruse) because it's constitutional convention for his party to vote with the Prime Minster. While in the US it very common for members of congress to vote against their own party. You know how McCain got attacked for voting 90% of the time with Bush, well a Conservative MP has voted 100% of the time with Harper. Only difference is that McCain had a choice, the conservative MP technically doesn't.

So if the Prime Minster wants to pass something, and he has a majority he can basically do it without much a fuss. If Obama wanted to pass something he still has to convince the democrats in the congress.

So if a president one day woke up and said "I want a theocracy!", he would lose in a vote in congress, lose in a vote in the senate, then probably get impeached.

As for the prop 8…The United States was founded on the principle that just because something is old, doesn’t make it right. Monarchy and Despotism had existed for thousands of years, yet the founding father broke with all tradition and created a political system based on individual freedom from both the political system as well as religion. So why now to the Conservatives in America tell us that we must cling to our definition of marriage, not because it is right, but because it is ancient. I hate the GOP because they reject reason and logic, and replace it with tradition and mysticism.

Anonymous said...

That sunrise is obviously a metaphor for political views that you certainly aren't allowed to express here!

Anonymous said...

The reason I have against homosexual marriage is that it would change the definition of marriage. This is based on my Christian belief that the definition of marriage is between a man and a woman. Now I understand that there are benefits in society for being married and as Americans we should have equal opportunity to those benefits. But until it is proven without doubt that homosexuality is genetic and not a choice, then giving up the opportunity for marriage will be no different than giving up the opportunity to live on the beach because you chose to live in say Nebraska.

Rhody said...

When we said "The woman has to consent" we re-defined marriage.
When we said "Marriage is between only two people" we re-defined marriage.
When we said "People of different religions can marry" we re-defined marriage.
When we said "People of different races can marry" we re-defined marriage.
When we said "Marriage should be about love" we re-defined marriage.
When we said "Women can own property" we re-defined marriage.
When we said "Women are not property" we re-defined marriage.
When we said "Married couples can decide if and when they have children" we re-defined marriage.
When we said "you do not have a right to beat or rape your wife" we re-defined marriage.

Marriage isn't an inherently religious institution anyway.

MozartFX said...

Ask the people of Iraq if today was an uplifting day. I guess that picture signifies the sun setting on the people of Iraq who risked their lives to vote and are now once again going to be abandoned by a bunch of people who take their freedom for granted and so they don't understand how what we're doing in Iraq IS the beginning of true world peace.

Jeff Green said...

Oh yeah, gosh. The invasion of Iraq under false pretenses was ALL about bringing world peace. Riiiight.
Kumbaya, my friend.

Anonymous said...

sad to see prop. 8 pass in California. I am glad to see that Obama won and prop. 1 and 2 passed in Michigan.

Anonymous said...

While the stated reasons and process of invading Iraq was done very poorly, invasion and (temporary) military occupation is one of the most effective ways to spread freedom democracy.

Anonymous said...

"Let him without sin cast the first stone." -Jesus

We may have all heard of this story at one time. If not, read on and don't flame until you have finished... the religious leaders had found and brought a woman found in the act of commiting adultery to Jesus. The punishment for the crime was death and the leaders asked Jesus what they should do to test him (you see it was trick question, whether he killed her or let her go). That's when he said the line above and the leaders left because no one is faultless.

But hears the kicker... after the leaders left and the only Jesus and the woman remained he said, "Go and sin no more."

You see, Jesus (and Judism/Christianity in general) do teach to "love one another" BUT not to go along with whatever others do.

So before you flame this thread or religion or "the religious right" or whatever, think over this one sentence... Love the sinner, hate the sin. That is what church tries to convey (sometimes well but sometimes poorly). Its not something you have to agree with but maybe it can shead some light on how others feel.

Unknown said...

I would just like to say one last thing here on the election. I am glad that Obama won. I don't even care that he is a Democrat. He just sounds like a great guy.

But I can't figure out why Hillary lost. She seemed like such a shoo-in for sure. She could have beaten McCain also. Well she must have just fumbled the ball and Obama or President Obama recovered and ran it in. Maybe we were all just tired of those Clintons. I was tired, Jeff Green was tired, I think we all just had had enough of them.

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